diff --git a/src/manager.ts b/src/manager.ts
index 1d6828d..ff73f5d 100644
--- a/src/manager.ts
+++ b/src/manager.ts
@@ -79,8 +79,10 @@ export class Manager {
 
             if (existing instanceof Placeholder) {
                 rv = new (this._loggerClass ?? loggerClass)(scope, NOTSET);
+                rv.manager = this;
                 this.loggers[scope] = rv;
                 this._fixupChildren(existing, rv);
+                this._fixupParents(rv);
             }
             else {
                 rv = existing;
@@ -88,6 +90,7 @@ export class Manager {
         }
         else {
             rv = new (this._loggerClass ?? loggerClass)(scope, NOTSET);
+            rv.manager = this;
             this.loggers[scope] = rv;
             this._fixupParents(rv);
         }
@@ -168,7 +171,9 @@ export class Manager {
      */
     public clear() {
         Object.values(this.loggers).forEach((logger) => {
-            logger.clear()
+            if (!(logger instanceof Placeholder)) {
+                logger.clear();
+            }
         });
     }
 }